I like the concepts of your guild.

Hello everyone,

I was browsing the Darkfall forums and noticed the recruitment post, your guild concepts are very interesting I don't think there is another guild out there that created its own organization as in depth as you guys have.

Question: Did you guys put this into practice, in any other games or is this strickly for Darkfall.

I think that organization in a guild is very important, and if something like this can be put into use it can maximize the strengths of a guild. Lets face it not every one that joins a guild will be crafter, or a knight, a mage, assasin but I guess people will play and tend to stick to whats best for them. By putting people into group structures under leadership can maximize crafter's ability to craft, soldiers ability to fight, leaders ability to lead.

Is this feudal system compartmentalized?


I currently waiting for Darkfall as well, although it's doubtful the game will go into beta anytime soon. I am not in a guild, I am taking a break at the moment and trying to kill some time. You guys mind If i stick around? If DF ever comes out I would love to look you guys up in game and maybe join up and become a soldier, (I don't craft) but fighting suits me just fine I played DAOC and Shadowbane.

Well, the only "character classes" we have really grouped is different soldier types - our crafters are not grouped at all, but they can achieve status as a burgess. The only groupings in Wessex really are between leadership, veteran players, and new players. This is the meaning of the feudal structure - it looks like a complex society, but for game management it's very simple and easy.

It's good that you were able to learn about us on the Darkfall forums and that you appreciate what we have done.

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Well, the only "character classes" we have really grouped is different soldier types - our crafters are not grouped at all, but they can achieve status as a burgess. The only groupings in Wessex really are between leadership, veteran players, and new players. This is the meaning of the feudal structure - it looks like a complex society, but for game management it's very simple and easy.

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How will you keep track of the oragnization itself, in other word how will you maintain this type of organizational structure? I am assuming when players join they get to choose which branch of the structure they want to belong to?

Let's say you have a crafter, a pve and pvp casual player, and a pvp enthusiast who just wants to fight. Would these 3 types of players have a different command structure? They would probably have their own Ventrillo channels, and would have different type of jobs or tasks in the guild? How do you tie all this together? Does that mean you actually have serfs who gather resources, they hand it to crafter and the crafter deposits it in the armory and the Soldier who fights constant battles and does not have time to farm just equips it?

This sounds all great but what do you do when there is a serf rebellion? I am assuming it's not real serfdom per say but more of a communal type structure that is loose to the extent that when a player wants to change from farming all the time to a Soldier or a crafting profession he can?

Did you guys test this system out in previous games?

No, that's not the system at all. All three of those player types you mentioned would be in the same command structure, because during military operations, there should be only one command structure and everyone should fight- they just occupy different ranks of it. The casual pver, the hardcore pvper, and the crafter all have different rank trees to pursue, but a single player can pursue all three simultaneously.

I ment chain of command, I am assuming each rank/regiment has it's own squad leader and that squad leader has a superior officer.




---------------------------RAID-----LEADER-----------------------

(Casters)--------- (Healers)--------- (Infantry)----- (Cavlary)------
----group 1-------group 2----------group 3----------group 4--------
Squad Leader--- Squad Leader ----Squad Leader----- Squad Leader
Member---------- Member--------- Member---------- Member
Member---------- Member--------- Member---------- Member
Member---------- Member----------Member--------- -Member
Member---------- Member----------Member---------- Member


In The order of battle the Orders from the top Guild Raid Leader trickle down to individual Squad Leaders and then the Squad Leaders repeat the
order to the people under their command. I am also assuming that the same command structure is in place during peace time to get the daily tasks accomplished but normally incorporates and grafts the crafters, and the people who would not normally mine/trade/transport resources as well as manage the daily tasks.

Soldiers do not do the day to day tasks that crafters, miners and guild managers do; they are responsible for boarder security, training, harassing racial enemies etc.

In most cases it's the core of the Army that does the actual fighting, and the people who handle resource gathering, crafting and other stuff stay home; unless of course there is an emergency and they are called up.

Is this what you ment?

Yes, but the crafting is not socialized - resources are state owned, and crafters buy them from the state to use in their own enterprises.

Everything else is just about right.

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Yes, but the crafting is not socialized - resources are state owned, and crafters buy them from the state to use in their own enterprises.

Everything else is just about right.

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So in the grand scheme of things the land and everyhting on it including mines, crops, hunting grounds, and dungeons would be state owned.

Let's say for example I am part of the state millitary and I kill a mob and loot it, or I take a break from military life and go grind for some items; if I do this I am not breaking any laws right? How does this work exactly?
Do I depend on the state to provide me with armor and weapons so on and so forth or do I acquire my own armor's weapons etc.

How do you guys plan on dealing whith micromanaging the Military? You're gona have a Navy, Infantry, Ranged, Cavalry, I am assuming you guys are going to stick to the lore somewhat so how do you divide it?
What are the possible routes a person joining the military might persue what is he open to?

It sound like a pretty organized system, I can't seem to get my head wrapped around it.

Are you guys recruiting? I would like to sign up as a recruit for Darkfall.

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Originally Posted by Valdemar

Are you guys recruiting? I would like to sign up as a recruit for Darkfall.

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Check this out.

If accepted you'll go through a 2-6 week trial membership. If you pass the trial membership you'll become a Villein of His Grace.

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Originally Posted by Valdemar Severinus

So in the grand scheme of things the land and everyhting on it including mines, crops, hunting grounds, and dungeons would be state owned.

Let's say for example I am part of the state millitary and I kill a mob and loot it, or I take a break from military life and go grind for some items; if I do this I am not breaking any laws right? How does this work exactly?
Do I depend on the state to provide me with armor and weapons so on and so forth or do I acquire my own armor's weapons etc.

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Most of the land that Wessex occupies will be designated as MY land, meaning that all of my villeins are allowed to hunt it, farm it, mine it, loot it as much as they like as long as a certain percentage of what they work goes to me. That's the agreement the fealty that the serfs of Wessex have with me as their liege lord.

Those who become free from serfdom, meaning the burgesses and the yeomen, no longer have to pay half of what they harvest to a liege lord; however, they do have to pay taxes to their collective groups, usually headed by a mayor, who spends funds on upkeeping their city and its walls.

If certain resources have slow spawns and are not completely and instantly renewable, they may be OFF limits for burgesses to farm them outside of the area that exists for their boroughs. Only the villeins belonging to the liege lord in charge of that area would be allowed to farm it, and they must give half to the liege lord. If rangers catch non-villeins farming those areas, that is considered poaching from the lord's lands and there will be penalties. Burgesses needing those resources would have to purchase them from the lords in order to keep the economy running.

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How do you guys plan on dealing whith micromanaging the Military? You're gona have a Navy, Infantry, Ranged, Cavalry, I am assuming you guys are going to stick to the lore somewhat so how do you divide it?
What are the possible routes a person joining the military might persue what is he open to?

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There are three routes someone interested in joining the military might take: enlisting as a footman, a bowman, or a seaman. Footmen and sometimes archers can promote to cavalry.

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Most of the land that Wessex occupies will be designated as MY land, meaning that all of my villeins are allowed to hunt it, farm it, mine it, loot it as much as they like as long as a certain percentage of what they work goes to me. That's the agreement the fealty that the serfs of Wessex have with me as their liege lord.

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So depending where you stand on the social ladder you will be taxed, but how exactly will taxes be collected? I think this depends entirely on mechanics, and the taxation system that the guild implements would have to reflect that.

The loot table should reflect the Mob, at least that's how i understand it from reading the various Darkfall info that's avaliable. If I kill a rat, i wont get money from killing him or armor or weapons, a possible resource might be rat fur or rat meat. If I kill an Orc or a bandit I will end up with loot reflective of what the mob has on it, possibly coin. The question is how does the tax collection system work, it has to be somewhat based on not only on currencies, but resources as well.

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Those who become free from serfdom, meaning the burgesses and the yeomen, no longer have to pay half of what they harvest to a liege lord; however, they do have to pay taxes to their collective groups, usually headed by a mayor, who spends funds on upkeeping their city and its walls.

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What % of taxes would be applied to each rank in the guild? And if someone does become a merchant they are technically a part of the guild they are not free in the sense that they are just citizens do they have different guild tags? Can you explain to me the fundamental difference here.

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If certain resources have slow spawns and are not completely and instantly renewable, they may be OFF limits for burgesses to farm them outside of the area that exists for their boroughs. Only the villeins belonging to the liege lord in charge of that area would be allowed to farm it, and they must give half to the liege lord. If rangers catch non-villeins farming those areas, that is considered poaching from the lord's lands and there will be penalties. Burgesses needing those resources would have to purchase them from the lords in order to keep the economy running.

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Are Burgesses people who joined the guild and then left it? Or just merchants in general who might or might not be part of the guild?

Would it be correct to say that only members of the guild are allowed to farm/hunt/collect resources within the kingdom. And if a non-member of the guild or members of some other guild are found to be harvesting resources from the Kingdom itself the State's Garrison.Military will take immediate action of some sorts? Wonder how this will work out, seeing that there is alignment in game, how will you keep in check other Human clans that travel through and poach the kingdoms resources.... looks more like a job for the Diplomatic team rather then the Military since their hands will be tied down because of alignment.

Interesting stuff.

Land is divided into fiefs. Fiefs are headed by lords and knights. Only those who are part of fiefs are able to farm limited renewal resources on those fiefs, and they are called villeins. Burgesses are subjects of the Duchy of Wessex, but they are free men. They are not part of a fief, they are part of a boroughs, a town. This is why they are called burgesses and not enfeoffed villeins. But buildings in towns are limited, and the burgesses sacrifices his ability to legally farm from his lord's fief.

If you want to think of fiefs as subclans, I suppose you can. Sleggjaholl is a fief and it certainly is a subclan. But everyone here is a member of the Duchy of Wessex.

I don't know how taxes will work exactly in Darkfall. Some say they can be withdrawn automatically. We will apply what works, and in percentages which we discover to be reasonable.

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Land is divided into fiefs. Fiefs are headed by lords and knights. Only those who are part of fiefs are able to farm limited renewal resources on those fiefs, and they are called villeins. Burgesses are subjects of the Duchy of Wessex, but they are free men. They are not part of a fief, they are part of a boroughs, a town. This is why they are called burgesses and not enfeoffed villeins. But buildings in towns are limited, and the burgesses sacrifices his ability to legally farm from his lord's fief.

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Let's say that the Duchy controls 2 territories on the map, that would be 2 fiefs and each fief would have 1 city; so technically speaking there would be 2 cities in the kingdoms. Are the villeins of 1st fief, prohibited from entering, adventuring and farming the 2nd fief? I think free movement between the fief's would apply to the members of the guild.

It seems to me that casual players for the most part would play the role of villeins. Does each rank have it's own laws and regulations, I read the common law but that seems to be general law that applies in this case almost to everyone.

And in terms of the military is a soldier bound by his or her role, if for example a footman wants to participate in Naval Battles can he do that or does he have to apply for a seamen rank?

Usually the two lords of neighboring fiefs will work out a personal deal that will allow their villeins to farm both areas, sharing the harvests from each other. But again, when it comes to rare, slowly respawning resources that occur in a certain lord's fief - he technically has sole right to it, and he and his villeins are the only ones who can claim these things without poaching. It's his prerogative if he wishes to allow others to claim these things without consequences.

Yes, each rank does have its own laws and regulations. The three social ranks of aristocracy, freemen and villeins all have more and more liberal limits placed on their activities and rights. Jobs taken like herald or sheriff have codes of conduct attached to them. Titled nobles like knights and lords have codes of chivalry and noblesse oblige to direct them. The Clergy have forsworn worldly title and personal property.

A soldier is not bound by his role, but by his orders. There may come a time when all footmen are requested to board ships and sail. Soldiers can always make requests for special considerations when they wish to be the preferred choice for manning a ship, or, a soldier can always ask to switch branches entirely, in which case, usually a footman who wishes to become a seaman will have to be traded between one knight who leads footsoldiers and one who leads ships.

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Usually the two lords of neighboring fiefs will work out a personal deal that will allow their villeins to farm both areas, sharing the harvests from each other. But again, when it comes to rare, slowly respawning resources that occur in a certain lord's fief - he technically has sole right to it, and he and his villeins are the only ones who can claim these things without poaching. It's his prerogative if he wishes to allow others to claim these things without consequences.

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Yes but does that apply to the in guild structure? Wessex kingdom/fief will be bordering either Human/racial allies/racial enemies territories, but I ment what happeneds if Wessex controls more then 1 territory and they border each other. Does that mean that players in that 1 fief have to stay within the boundries and cannot travel to, hunt, and group with people who technically belong to their same Nation State/guild.

Let's say I wanna take a group through the other clans territory, and or lead an expedition to pk racial enemies? Can this be done or would we need some kind of permission and or wait till there is an actual guild raid event?

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The Clergy have forsworn worldly title and personal property.

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What do you mean by that? So if someone becomes a hearler they can't own clothes/armor/weapons?

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A soldier is not bound by his role, but by his orders. There may come a time when all footmen are requested to board ships and sail. Soldiers can always make requests for special considerations when they wish to be the preferred choice for manning a ship, or, a soldier can always ask to switch branches entirely, in which case, usually a footman who wishes to become a seaman will have to be traded between one knight who leads footsoldiers and one who leads ships.

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I am talking in terms of PVP, there are no restrictions on soldiers they can technically train and do whatever skill they want to have just as long as they report it or let the leaders know of their military status and what skills they are proficient in.

Let's say that I am a footman, and I want to join a group of people who are going to sail or adventure on the ocean; technically I can do that if I want to the leader of the Boat or the superior officer wont go berserk and say "You can't come with us because you are not a seamen/marine, go unenlist with the footmen come back here and apply to become a semen first".

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Originally Posted by Valdemar Severinus

Let's say I wanna take a group through the other clans territory, and or lead an expedition to pk racial enemies? Can this be done or would we need some kind of permission and or wait till there is an actual guild raid event?

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Wessex controlling more than one territory means Wessex controls one very large territory. We don't differentiate Wessex 1 and Wessex 2.

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What do you mean by that? So if someone becomes a hearler they can't own clothes/armor/weapons?

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Land. :rolleyes:

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I am talking in terms of PVP, there are no restrictions on soldiers they can technically train and do whatever skill they want to have just as long as they report it or let the leaders know of their military status and what skills they are proficient in.

Let's say that I am a footman, and I want to join a group of people who are going to sail or adventure on the ocean; technically I can do that if I want to the leader of the Boat or the superior officer wont go berserk and say "You can't come with us because you are not a seamen/marine, go unenlist with the footmen come back here and apply to become a semen first".

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Joining a group and going on an adventure has nothing to do with the military or military actions. Yes, that footman, being part of the military, is expected to train and be proficient in certain weapons required by his unit. He can train anything else on his own time, and he can go ride on boats and sail around with his buddies on his own time too, and those buddies can put whoever they want in charge of the ship if they have one.

I've really enjoyed this thread so far. We might consider making it a mini-fireside chat :)

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Land. :rolleyes:

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Well yeah but technically you own all the land My gracious Lord, by the way you don't have mood swings do you? You won't log in one night and tell all the Knights to sloughter all the serfs? Or abuse the noble right of prima nocta? :D

BTW I singed the application, the prima nocta part gave me a good chuckle though my Girlfriend look worried when i pressed the submit button.

The language surrounding this type of roleplaying is confusing, well at least its confusing to me. I think you guys have good ideas but I would definately expand the website and include all the lore and the info that is needed for players to not only understand but imerse themselves in this type of environement. :p

Can you direct me to threads on this website where I can take a look at all the Lore that you guys will be using.

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Joining a group and going on an adventure has nothing to do with the military or military actions. Yes, that footman, being part of the military, is expected to train and be proficient in certain weapons required by his unit.

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If you're referring to Spec groups here I agree, that's a good idea especially when you combine the formation and tactical system that the game is supposed to have.

Will there be a distinction in armor/clothing style for units that are part of the State's Millitary wing.

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He can train anything else on his own time, and he can go ride on boats and sail around with his buddies on his own time too, and those buddies can put whoever they want in charge of the ship if they have one.

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Sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Valdemar Severinus

Well yeah but technically you own all the land My gracious Lord, by the way you don't have mood swings do you? You won't log in one night and tell all the Knights to sloughter all the serfs? Or abuse the noble right of prima nocta? :D

BTW I singed the application, the prima nocta part gave me a good chuckle though my Girlfriend look worried when i pressed the submit button.

The language surrounding this type of roleplaying is confusing, well at least its confusing to me. I think you guys have good ideas but I would definately expand the website and include all the lore and the info that is needed for players to not only understand but imerse themselves in this type of environement. :p

Can you direct me to threads on this website where I can take a look at all the Lore that you guys will be using.

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I start owning all the land, and then I give fiefs. Churchmen can't get fiefs.

Just tell your girlfriend there's nothing to worry about. You just have to make sure you are not a villein when you get married. Oh, and don't let your liege lord see her if she's pretty. I would never take advantage of ius primae noctis but I can't say the same for my knights. Aeneas is insatiable and you know how Sir Thirlan is about his "numbers". ;-)

All the info IS there on the site, in the government section and in the fireside chats at the top of the commons.

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If you're referring to Spec groups here I agree, that's a good idea especially when you combine the formation and tactical system that the game is supposed to have.

Will there be a distinction in armor/clothing style for units that are part of the State's Millitary wing?

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Yes, the military has spec groups. And different garrisons of the military where the clothing or "livery" of their knight and the lord above him.

Noticed a comment on taxes!

The way taxes will be handled will depend on game and administrative situation. Just know that there will be a REASON behind the numbers. We wont just set the tax to 25% because it's a nice number! At first it might be set at some random number until enough statistics can be gathered to set the appropriate value for a tax that does not constrict our members of their ability to equip themselves yet not low enough to make our administrative costs impossible to support.

Oh also I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be varying "levels" of taxes as well. Lords will set their own taxes in their lands and the Lords in turn will be taxed by his Grace. So as the Exchequer I will "indirectly" influence the taxation of all members by setting the pace of taxation for the Lord. You can call it "trickle down taxation" :p

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Noticed a comment on taxes!

The way taxes will be handled will depend on game and administrative situation. Just know that there will be a REASON behind the numbers. We wont just set the tax to 25% because it's a nice number! At first it might be set at some random number until enough statistics can be gathered to set the appropriate value for a tax that does not constrict our members of their ability to equip themselves yet not low enough to make our administrative costs impossible to support.

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I read that you guys already decided on the 50% tax rate for the villeins, although in the beginning of the game I would go higher to get a head start and have most of the resources be used to building the city for at least a few days just until a few important buildings have been constructed as well as some city defences.

First few days is really important, Allow members 2 maybe 3 sets of armor + some weapons and some money to train and have the rest be either stockpiled and or junked for either money or resources. This is how city building worked in the begining week or in Shadowbane, it began at a communal structure where members would contribute as much as possible and pushed themselves and they did it because it was not only in their guilds interest but also in their own interest.

After a few important buildings are built and the city gets rolling the taxes can be eased, the atmosphere wont be so hectic and most people wont be as paranoid knowing that they accomplished at least some form of security.

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Originally Posted by Valdemar Severinus

I read that you guys already decided on the 50% tax rate for the villeins, although in the beginning of the game I would go higher to get a head start and have most of the resources be used to building the city for at least a few days just until a few important buildings have been constructed as well as some city defences.

First few days is really important, Allow members 2 maybe 3 sets of armor + some weapons and some money to train and have the rest be either stockpiled and or junked for either money or resources. This is how city building worked in the begining week or in Shadowbane, it began at a communal structure where members would contribute as much as possible and pushed themselves and they did it because it was not only in their guilds interest but also in their own interest.

After a few important buildings are built and the city gets rolling the taxes can be eased, the atmosphere wont be so hectic and most people wont be as paranoid knowing that they accomplished at least some form of security.

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A good portion of us were there when Shadowbane first came out. We know the basics ;)

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Originally Posted by Valdemar Severinus

Let's say I wanna take a group through the other clans territory, and or lead an expedition to pk racial enemies? Can this be done or would we need some kind of permission and or wait till there is an actual guild raid event?

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I'll jump in here. Welcome to the Duchy of Wessex. YOU CAN CHECK OUT ANY TIME YOU LIKE, BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAAAAVE. *guitar solo*

I'd assume that as long as it doesn't conflict with your orders or mission plan you could do that. Now, if you're guarding a mine because it's strategically important, I'd advise against it. Also, if there's, oh, no war between the other nation and Wessex I'd highly advise not to do anything. Racial enemies or not, it'd be a bad idea to provoke more than you can chew at any given moment.

Furthermore, just so everyone is clear about the above-mentioned situation on my end of things. Citizens of Sleggjaholl can set up bounties, feats and other things of that sort at the local longhouse, tavern or Chieftain's House. So if you want to raid those bastardly Hobgoblins of Farfarawayland, walk into the longhouse, declare your intentions and specifically say, "who is with me?" Naturally, all of your friends should join in and reply back "I am with you!" At that moment, it becomes a binding verbal contract and so as long as nobody declares your intentions evil or without merit within a certain time limit, everyone must respect the power of said contract. Upon completion of said quest, return back to where you originally declared your intentions and state your victory. If you fail, do the same. Either way, give something for the Skalds and Heralds to write about you.

Now, this isn't to say you should declare your intentions every time you want to leave your house; that's retarded. Instead, pick things that are pretty damn heroic. Or things against an enemy clan or something of that order. Your goal here is to out-do the local topic of discussion. If Bart Hooligan of Thorstadt managed to headbutt a dragon right in the crotch, then you should teabag said dragon. Basically, before you log on, get really drunk and then go with whatever awesome and stupid idea you come up with. Don't worry, everyone else will be drunk so it's okay! Vikings were known for their love of mead and doing otherwise dumbass shit. Lindisfarne? Some guy got drunk and went sailing. Iceland? Again, drunk and decided to sail because he felt emo for getting kicked out. Either way, the more drunk you get the better idea you'll have.
(Disregard any mention of drinking while at the computer, it's probably for the best you stop reading right now)

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Originally Posted by Duke Wessex

you know how Sir Thirlan is about his "numbers". ;-)

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Originally Posted by Thirlan

Noticed a comment on taxes!

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Pervert.