Bad News, Ref: Steel prices

[Phocian Night]

Alas I have just been informed that the price of steel is now to be almost doubled.
It was only a matter of time.

I will be reworking my prices to reflect this development.

Phocian

[Karsa Orlong]

What is the new price of steel then?

[Wooster Redwood]

30g / 1,000

[Giumar Sturmzinne]

Still/again? Phocian said something about a price lower then 20g in mumble yesterday. But maybe he has a special source...?

[Phocian Night]

As I said sadly my special source has increased the steel costs.

[Karsa Orlong]

Who in Wessex sells steel then, and jadeite? Or should I look outside the guild for metals?

[Gragash Vulgor]

I can make steel with my brother's slaghauler, i can sell cheap to the guild, does 20g seems fair?

[Karsa Orlong]

Sure, I'd need 2K soon as you can make it then. I am also interested in jadeite, cuprum and bron.

[Rhodri Taliesin]

Well guys I remember a conversation with some TOG guys a couple days ago about how they may want to start selling us Tier 1 refined Sabura (And all the resources that come with refining that rock) to us, speak with Vampirik for more details about this as I only caught a few fragments.

[Wooster Redwood]

I've heard reports of steel price climbing towards 40g per 1k. Terribad news, I say.

[Gwarred Guild]

Why are the prices rising. I know there was a problem with refining, i guess demand is so high right now that refiners cannot keep up. Perhaps we can do another event, I have a new miner, and I know others have too, where we can mine for several hours and get the resources we need for peeps to refine to steel. we could even make some money out of it if we get enough steel (i doubt it) to sell at those prices. What do you think?

[Giumar Sturmzinne]

oh damn it. I wanted my character to have tungsteel weapons someday... seems like I either have to farm like hell or I have to drop this Idea -.-
Good news for slaghaulers though. They finally get what their effort is worth.

[Wooster Redwood]

Ayeh, with the low market supply, the Slaggies are finally getting the chance to fix the old issue of their work being undervalued. As gold is easier to come by, the prices should be way higher for slaggeying to be worthwhile compared to hunting.
To make 1,000 steel (35g) takes about 10-12 times more time than to hunt&butcher the gold needed for it.

[Giumar Sturmzinne]

Ayeh, with the low market supply, the Slaggies are finally getting the chance to fix the old issue of their work being undervalued. As gold is easier to come by, the prices should be way higher for slaggeying to be worthwhile compared to hunting.
To make 1,000 steel (35g) takes about 10-12 times more time than to hunt&butcher the gold needed for it.

Yes and you haven´t even spoke about the benefit for the whole community comparing the both ways to earn money... I mean what would pvp like without slaggies? Heavy armor is no problem but have fun to fight against such a heavy knight with incisium or flakestone weapons. Never ending story. lol

[Daliyah Legolia]

Might as well spend the time making Cronite swords at this rate.

[Giumar Sturmzinne]

Good Luck with getting the lore maxed if you really plan on making cronite weapons. The books alone cost 60g (50 for cronite + 10 for master alloys) and I don´t really want to know how much gold you need for buying the needed cronite to max the lore out. ;)

[Gragash Vulgor]

Just buying TU for maximizing the lore would cost arround 500 gold... i really dont want to see your Cronite bill Daliyah, would shock me to death...

[Sir Levald Aurelius]

there's always been an issue with hunting being more profitable than extraction, dawn broke the scale. its insane that a hunter can gather 100g worth of carcasses in less than 30 min, the time is put on the butchers which then need to spend an hour cutting it up. on the other hand a slaggy might make 60g worth of steel in an hour, if hes already got the ores mined. if not its closer to half that provided the nodes last.

[Phineas Mouse]

with regards to mining and extracting time, and actual value of materials: let me post some math I did last night for jacen, since we're all talking about this.

steel
------

*mining time*


10k granum takes ~8 minutes/stack with good nodes (wentis castrum/keep area is reliable)
travel team per 6 stacks is 5 minutes

12*8min + 2*5 min = 106 minutes

*extracting time*

extracting ~14 stacks of granum takes 1 hour (345s per extraction for me, but the extractor lasts an hour)

extracting 10780 blood ore takes 350s * 10780/10000 = 377s =~ 6 minutes

refining takes maybe a minute or two (moving stuff in and out of bank)

thus extracting/refining time to make 1k steel is (60 min + 6 min + 2 min) * 1000/2112 =~0000 32 minutes

*yield*

14 stacks of granum makes 770*14 = 10,780 blood ore, in a crusher with no catalyst
10780 blood ore makes 4312 pig iron, in a furnace with 420 coke catalyst

4312 pig iron makes 4312*.7 = 3018 grain steel, using 2156 calx powder and 2156 coke
3018 grain steel makes 3018*.7 = 2112 steel, using 1509 saburra powder and 1509 coal

2112 steel / 14 stacks gives 150.86 steel per stack, which at 30g/k steel is 30*150.86/1000 = 4.53g of steel, pre stack of granum.




Catalysts
---------

1000/2112 * (420 coke + 2156 coke + 2156 calx powder + 1509 saburra powder + 1509 coal) = 1220 coke + 1021 + 714 coal + 714 saburra powder

12240 coke requires 10597 coal, so 1220 takes 1220/12240*10597 = 1056 coal, and requires 350s*1220/10000 = 42s

a stack of calx gets 2964 calx powder, 1135 coal: coal is limiting catalyst from calx extraction
1509 coal + 1056 coal = 2565 coal requires 22.6k calx, which takes 230s * 2.26 = 8 minutes

714 saburra powder takes 350s*714/2000 =~2 mins and requires 10000*714/2000 = 3.6k saburra



Conclusion
----------

Total mining time for 1000 steel is 74 minutes.

Total extraction / refining time for 1000 steel is 32+1+8+2=43 minutes, and requires 6.63 stacks of granum, 2.26 stacks of calx and .36 stacks of saburra. Thus total stacks of ore required for 1k steel is 9.25 stacks.

If assumed equal cost of ore, total value of ores (in terms of steel production) is 9.25 stacks per 1k steel, or 3.24g per stack of ore (this number is value of steel sold per stack of ore). Please keep in mind that this assumption, for us, is unrealistic ( saburra - and to a lesser extent calx - should be more expensive than granum, based on distance to moh'ki and availability.

this extracted ore also provides 570 bleckblende, 570+1193 = 1763 malachite, 46 jadeite, 4520 calspar, 4542 calx powder (not used in steel making), 81+928=1009 flakestone, 5848 amarantum, 19.5k granum powder.

byproducts
----------

1763 malachite gives 705 cuprum and 22 sulfur (in furnace /w bor)
jadeite is end product
4520 calspar gives 71 chalk glance, 95 electrum, 1262 malachite (which is 505 cuprum, 16 sulfur), (calspar done in furnace /w ichor)
71 chalk glance is 5.4 skadite (fabricula /w ichor)
570 bleckblende gives 109 bleck
5848 amarantum gives 78 bleck, 53 calamine, 157 cuprum, 105 electrum, 526 waterstone (crusher w/o catalyst, sacrifices other stuff to get waterstone)
526 waterstone is 95 lupium and 14 gem metal (furnace with fuming salts)
granum powder is vendorable (19.5k gives 195 silver)
4542 calx powder is not vendorable, but is commonly used as catalyst (for more than just steel)
1009 flakestone is end product


totals

1367 cuprum
187 bleck
19.5k granum powder
1009 flakestone
4542 calx powder
46 jadeite
95 lupium
14 gem metal
387 electrum
38 sulfur
53 calamine

---value---
using http://forsaken.clangroups.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=345154&ForumID=1736974&TabID=2889647&Replies=0&TopicID=9614150
which i think is a good starting point, approximating values not listed

cuprum - 684s
bleck - 15s ((5g-4g)*.8 * 187/1000, giving refiner 20% cut for making bron)
granum powder - 195s
1009 flakestone - 807s
4542 calx powder - 454s
46 jadeite - 69s
95 lupium - 713s
14 gem metal - 46s (forsaken doesn't list a price, but gem metal is used in tindremic messing, which is difficult to craft and useful to crafters according to vamp. If i list a price of 80g/1k for tindremic messing, and messing is 15g/k, and split the remainder between almine and gem metal, gem metal is 32.5g/k. 14/1000*32.5g = 46s)
387 electrum - 387s (assuming 10g/k, again forsaken doesn't list a price. somewhat hard to obtain, possibly useless to crafters)
38 sulfur - 11s (assuming 3g/k, not sure if this vendors, primarily used as catalyst)
53 calamine - 440s ((15-4)g*.8 / 2, giving refiner 20% cut for making messing)

metals total (cuprum, bleck, lupium, gem metal) - 14.6g
total - 38g

time to extract =~ (1763 + 4520 + 71 + 570 + 5848 + 526 + 1262)*350s/10000 = 8.5 minutes

----extractor yields (in currency)-----

so at current forsaken prices (including 30g/k steel), assuming max skills and starting from basic ores, steel extraction yields 41.9 gold/hour (30g/43 minutes) for the extractor.
After that, total byproducts yield 268g/hour, but keep in mind demand on most of the byproducts will be soft/nonexistent. metals yield of byproducts is 103g/hour.

total yield is 79g/hour, total metals yield is 52g/hour.

[John Livonia]

Just to chip in... I mine/crush/smelt/refine and all that with 3-4 clients at the same time. My gold per hour is huge compared to farming. When I farm I tend to run the butcher at the same time anyway but it's too much to have multiple clients farming mobs, it's simple too active a task.

Also for easy use favorite this... http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1453/liabilitytungsteelprodu.png I find it comes in handy often enough.

[Rowan Kynton]

On MO forums you still see alot of players selling around 13 - 15g per 1k... you just need to look and be quick to msg them