Another Victory!

[Jake Dane]

The temporary alliance won another siege against SUN and has now claimed the hamlet of Spear Waters.

Also - remind me again why we're still self-sieging now that SUN stopped doing it? Anyone know? Anything goes in love and war, sure, but what happened to honor and credibility?

[Alexander TheDutch]

cause the whole war is lame. fix siege mechanics. whas roaming around last night whas good fun.

[Jake Dane]

The war isn't lame. It's the best thing that has happened to the server for a long time. It's how both sides are handling it that is lame.

Self-sieging is wrong no matter who does it. If you're afraid of being multi-sieged and lose holdings then you have too many holdings to defend anyway and/or have them too spread out. I don't care what the excuse may be. Making your holdings literally impossible to siege due to broken game mechanics is as low as any other exploit in DF.

[Elagost Thego]

Well the temporary alliance wasn't designed to be fun. It was designed to destroy SUN, honourably or not, it doesn't matter. Whatever tactics cause SUN to fall faster are the best tactics.

[Sarek Bane]

Patch day today so we can only hope!

[Jake Dane]

Unintended "clever" use of faulty game mechanics isn't a tactic. That's just like saying it's ok to exploit the shit out of the game and do it by any means as long as it serves a cause.

This war is also about politics and not playing fair doesn't contribute to the cause of taking down SUN. In fact it does just the opposite as hate towards SUN amongst other things is based on how they don't play fair, manipulate the server and exploit broken game mechanics. We shouldn't join them on that ship even tho it currently may seem like the "faster" tactic.

[Falesh Helithian]

The war isn't lame. It's the best thing that has happened to the server for a long time. It's how both sides are handling it that is lame.

Self-sieging is wrong no matter who does it. If you're afraid of being multi-sieged and lose holdings then you have too many holdings to defend anyway and/or have them too spread out. I don't care what the excuse may be. Making your holdings literally impossible to siege due to broken game mechanics is as low as any other exploit in DF.

We self sieged because if we didn't Sun would multi-siege us and could buy victories while we couldn't multi-siege them back. We left the clan with the most holdings vulnerable so they could siege us back if they wanted to, but only one siege at a time. If we didn't do this then can you say that Sun would have been honorable and fought us properly or would they have been opportunistic and multi-sieged our best holdings then go back into self sieging after they bought some nice wins? I'm not up to date with the new happenings but it really comes down to the question: do you think Sun is honorable and can be trusted?

The war was supposed to take Sun down so they could not dominate the server as they had before. It was also done to distribute some of Suns holdings. It was a good thing to do, however we did not expect Sun to self siege for so long or that AV would allow it to continue. As such the blitzkrieg turned into a siege of attrition which is not something we wanted. I guess it would be fair to say that the alliance was naive in thinking we could fight Sun properly before AV fixed the system.

[Alexander TheDutch]

one thing i dont like about the war is that every city the nutcup takes they sell it to clans for low price BUT if they wanna sellit within 3 monts to another clan they need to ask Maehjol if its ok? WTF does he think hes a server king now. thats one of the reasons i didnt like to join lux,
since whenn eclipse tells the server what to do? to me with that action they are gonna be like sun :D.

[Falesh Helithian]

one thing i dont like about the war is that every city the nutcup takes they sell it to clans for low price BUT if they wanna sellit within 3 monts to another clan they need to ask Maehjol if its ok? WTF does he think hes a server king now. thats one of the reasons i didnt like to join lux,
since whenn eclipse tells the server what to do? to me with that action they are gonna be like sun :D.

There is a good reason behind that actually. To show that we are not doing this for profit we are selling the holdings cheap. What we do not want are people buying the holdings now and then selling them right away for their true value, basically profiteering off the temporary alliance. We also do not want these holdings going right back into Suns hands, with their deep pockets they can easily engineer this either with proxy clans. The 3 month time condition forces Sun to hurt for a while and also makes those holding harder for Sun to re-take due to the bad PR they would get 3 months down the line sieging some random clan's holding.

[Jake Dane]

We self sieged because if we didn't Sun would multi-siege us and could buy victories while we couldn't multi-siege them back.


If we didn't do this then can you say that Sun would have been honorable and fought us properly or would they have been opportunistic and multi-sieged our best holdings then go back into self sieging after they bought some nice wins?

That's all speculation. Here's some of my own to challenge yours:
Since we nutcupped from day 1 (which I do not mind at all), who did SUN have left to turn to, to buy victories from right at the beginning? Sure, they could multi-siege but they wouldn't have enough people to attend most of the sieges anyway. Where are all these people supposed to come from? At most the alliance would lose a couple mediocre holdings. If SUN started self-sieging from there, then it would be fair for the alliance to self-siege as well.


I'm not up to date with the new happenings but it really comes down to the question: do you think Sun is honorable and can be trusted?

We self-sieged from day 1. Despite what I've written above, I could live with us doing that at the time as I could see the sense in it even though I felt it was wrong. Now, and correct me if I'm wrong, afaik SUN has stopped self-sieging but the alliance keep doing it as we "deem it necessary". All the meanwhile we're challenging SUN holdings (and taking them). Pretty despicable if you ask me. And no, I don't think SUN is honorable and can be trusted. A point that should be quite clear alrdy ;)



The war was supposed to take Sun down so they could not dominate the server as they had before. It was also done to distribute some of Suns holdings. It was a good thing to do, however we did not expect Sun to self siege for so long or that AV would allow it to continue.

I completely agree with you on this but in all fairness it was the alliance who initiated the self-siege race. We took the first step. Because of this we can blame ourselves. All odds and previous experience point to SUN self-sieging anyway no matter what would've happened after our initial Kvitstein siege. All I'm saying is that we threw the first stone.

With us continuing to self-siege we're slowly turning into what we despise which is SUN. Exploiting broken siege mechanics to take down SUN. Yay, what an accomplishment...

Winning by all means isn't always winning imo.

P.S. Maejohl doesn't condone macros/scripts with pixel detection/image search abilities (and I'm not talking about using aimhack or anything like that. It's simple ray scripts, spell cycles etc. but with pixel detection for ease of use) yet it's alright to self-siege. Both things are part of the game and available to anyone who's smart enough to set it up. Hypocrite much? Yes plz.

[Falesh Helithian]

That's all speculation. Here's some of my own to challenge yours:
Since we nutcupped from day 1 (which I do not mind at all), who did SUN have left to turn to, to buy victories from right at the beginning? Sure, they could multi-siege but they wouldn't have enough people to attend most of the sieges anyway. Where are all these people supposed to come from? At most the alliance would lose a couple mediocre holdings. If SUN started self-sieging from there, then it would be fair for the alliance to self-siege as well.
I agree that it is speculation, which is why I posed the question of whether Sun was honorable or trustworthy. In my opinion they are not as they have shown repeatedly that they will try to use any tactic to win, be it self sieging, re-logging for invulnerability shields, spawning ships in front of others or anything else they can think of. So I do not think they are either.

With regards to how they could use multi-sieging, they just need to have plenty of Runestones bound to different siege targets and just go for the one(s) that are undefended. They can rally enough troops to take holdings using this tactic to secure our best cities. Once they had done that, which would have cost a lot but lets face it money is no object to Sun, they could just sit back and self-siege while posting smack on the forums that they owned us. Basically should we put the outcome of the war in Suns hands and hope they don't screw us over?


We self-sieged from day 1. Despite what I've written above, I could live with us doing that at the time as I could see the sense in it even though I felt it was wrong. Now, and correct me if I'm wrong, afaik SUN has stopped self-sieging but the alliance keep doing it as we "deem it necessary". All the meanwhile we're challenging SUN holdings (and taking them). Pretty despicable if you ask me. And no, I don't think SUN is honorable and can be trusted. A point that should be quite clear alrdy ;)
I don't know the current polotics but I can say that we have had a clan not self sieged for a long time now, if they want to siege us they can. The fact that they have stopped self sieging doesn't change the fact that since AV have not fixed the siege system they could buy wins from us by multi-sieging while we cannot do so to them. Again the question is, do you trust Sun or would they just buy a few wins then go back to self-sieging and laugh at us?


I completely agree with you on this but in all fairness it was the alliance who initiated the self-siege race. We took the first step. Because of this we can blame ourselves. All odds and previous experience point to SUN self-sieging anyway no matter what would've happened after our initial Kvitstein siege. All I'm saying is that we threw the first stone.

With us continuing to self-siege we're slowly turning into what we despise which is SUN. Exploiting broken siege mechanics to take down SUN. Yay, what an accomplishment...

Winning by all means isn't always winning imo.
If Sun are not as dominant at the end of this then that is a good thing, that's all this was about anyway. If we had done this differently then we could have lost our best holdings and had the alliance break up due to that. Or maybe they wouldn't have done that and we could have won without self-sieging, we just don't know. The only thing we had to go on was Suns past behavior, which made people choose to do it the way we have. The only way to do it right and do it successfully would be to have waited for AV to fix the siege system, but a lot of people had been waiting a long time to take Sun down already and wanted it to happen without waiting god knows how long for AV.

At least this whole escapade has given AV a few good kicks in the nuts and made them get the siege system prioritized and has even got them to unlink it from the expansion.

[Keaven Haliday]

Glad to see you're still kicking ass, I'm logging in soon as this finishes updating.

[Keaven Haliday]

Well I'm logging in as soon as AV stops giving me some stupid error code 602 bullshit.