A few points:I'm sure Casilda would, out of politesse, not insist on referring to the man in question as anything but "the Usurper" to her brothers in faith from the Church of Soldeus in Wessex, even though he was the head of the Order into which she was ordained. There was a usurpation, at least from one very widely-held point of view.Originally Posted by Azidano Valkran
I'm just saying, that OOC you'll be seeing me say "Zac said", or "Malachi said".
For your potential amusement, though, I will proffer that he had one other epithet, used in the OG Darkfall days, and especially by the rather i-c atheist vassals of which I was one: "Malarkey Drake". He thought it was funny, too.Not exactly. As Levald (who, shall I out him? Was / is also a member of OL, the potential gaming organisation) says, it was the Ordo Lucius.I don't really doubt that's possible, as Sir Kaylem took vows as a knight of the church and thus became known as a Brother of the Judican Order. However, it is also not necessarily so, unless the non-military brethren of the church are following the specific rule (if there is one) of that specific order. To simplify: If I were you, I'd ask and make sure.
- A slight complication is the question of how you can describe St. Jude unless (as is traditional) as the disciple or friend of Lucius, and you can only answer it for yourselves. The Ordo Lucius would not be ret-conning this point.
- Another slight complication is that there was an Order of St. Lucian of Riada, the Merciful Harbingers, established back in 2009, granted ecclesiastical permissions by the U... know what, and warranted to bear an Achievement of Arms by His Grace Manus Dei. Twyster was a squire within the rule of that order, and I think one other person may have joined.
Though Twyster showed up, also, to join the OL, I do not think he did so merely on the strength of his esquiry in the O.St.L.R., as it was manifestly a separate thing, even if based on what was held to be the same saint/saviour on a different day. The OL has its own Rule (a kind of mission statement / code of conduct) which would have been unnecessary if the two orders were identical. They are no such thing as identical; as the only current member of the OL who is role-playing the religion in MO, I must insist that you all not attempt to conflate the two for purposes of OOC squabbling. There's no basis for an argument on this point out of character.Regarding the Key Differences: Yes, and no; maybe? Technically, in the case of the Merciful Harbingers. The O.St.L.R., as the documentary record of their Grant of Arms conveys,
was created as an order of the church militant by the presiding Bishop's spiritual authority, not that of the Duke, and not from the temporal authority of the Duke, and the head of it would have been an Abbot, unnamed in the grant. Though records would seem to be lamentably spotty as to who that was, it was probably some priest, maybe the Bishop of the time, maybe not. The Abbot of the Ordo Lucius, succeeding to Zac's original character of Malachi, would be another character entirely.WHEREAS the loyal and virtuous Order of St. Lucian of Riada, known famously as "The Merciful Harbingers", has demonstrated both fervid faith and martial valor and been duly instituted by His Excellency, the Right Honorable Malachi Drake, Bishop of Wessex, he is desirous of having Letters Patent of Armorial Ensigns granted and appointed unto them and duly recorded in His Grace's College of Arms, and accordingly hath rightly requested by the favor of His Grace’s Warrant our granting and assigning such Arms
For orders internal to Wessex, it's possible that headship devolves back to the king when, over time, people playing in them quit games or gaming and leave guilds; it would be easy to see the duke taking back all the empty grandmaster positions; there's a rationale and precedent for that. But it would not apply to the Ordo Lucius as it was only begun outside of Wessex his realm and after the dissolution of the so-called Kingdom of Wessex.
I find Zac i-c as Malachi referring at least once to the Abbot of the abbey of St. Jude. Unknown who, specifically, he meant.Azidano, you're insulting to call it paranoia. I am not worried on behalf of the OL, regardless of its in-game activity or lack thereof in MO.
Furthermore, if as I hear you really, personally, prefer Mike's short sallies to my contributions to the discussion-- if this is TL;dr for you-- then you can continue without my looking up and linking your 'history, depth, culture, substance'. Do. It. Yourself.
Back on topic, I transferred nothing from these forums to the MO forums. This is the provenance of what I've most recently re-posted:
- Zac as Malachi, bishop's hat, posted the WIP and results of his work and his Solar's work as privately viewed documents in the cloud. He then posted them on the MoFos, at various dates possibly included in most of them, and at or around the same time, on the Wessex forums.
- SV let someone out to play with the permissions of the RP / Lore forums at mortalonline.com and the whole wretched mess was deleted by vandals.
- Rhodri commendably and assiduously recovered just about all of everything from the Google cache of that part of the forums, enlisting various others including but not limited to Otto, Zac, and me to help.
- Otto is not a paper-shuffling type; he mislabeled some of Zac's posts that he reposted, for instance giving the orthodox version the title "The Cult Of Sol Invictus", and vice versa. Not a big deal, but something he did eventually fix, I believe.
- Your guild leader dropped the Author Bomb on all things Lucius (and possibly Lucian) with his already-famous "that's a heresy", unquote.
- I reposted, with somewhat clearer titling, and more individual posts, what had already been reposted by Otto, and originally posted by Malachi. It's the lore of the OL, regardless of what Wessex (the guild, the man) thinks of it. Because I can't expect Otto to keep his posts intact if it's all or partly heresy to his (sometimes roleplayed) character, and because I can't allow it to disappear or be edited away from what is the basis of something that I and other people are roleplaying outside of Wessex, there is no alternative. I can't have people joining AI and wondering about the religion of Soldeus as practiced there, and tell them "well, the guy who posted it, his guild got rid of / changed it".
- I suggested to Otto that he might want to delete his post, as even if you brethren here come up with a slightly or entirely new take on your guild's lore, it'll be posted by the head of Wessex state, or the head of the Church of Wessex, and not Sir ("isn't there a war I should be starting, somewhere?") Osterwind.
What can I say, except that he's a hip shooter? Fortunately for me I can now only watch approvingly as you all figure out what you're going to do differently in compliance with his statement as RL author/owner of internal Wessex lore.This is one of the reasons I fell in love with loreplay and roleplay, period, as this is not unique to this game or this guild though it has had some sterling examples here.Spoiler:
