The Heresy of Lucius?

**Casilda Tametomo** · 03-22-2014 05:11 AM

What I recall specifically about the perceived need for an Incarnation of the Radiant Lord in Nave (for which role St. Lucian / Lucius was chosen) is that (along with sacrifice on a divine level being a supernally noble and beautiful idea, with all kinds of plot complications and character to be revealed in parables) there was a kind of gap left from the lore of Agon, a world wherein all humans might have been and all Mercians were certain they were *descendants* of Auros, not just His Creations.

Emotionally, it was felt, it would be almost as rewarding to be able to get into a character who could say "my God was born among us and died for me!" as it would be to assume the persona of one who could say "I am of the blood of Auros". For those who do get into character at all, that is. Those who don't were assumed not to care.

St. Lucian (note spelling) was around in, I believe, 2010, if you are trying to determine a timeline.

Comic Relief:

Spoiler:

PS: The funny RL thing is, Zac and I are both atheists, and both he and Twyster, who also wrote for the Church, are from Jewish cultural backgrounds; don't know if that made it harder or easier to write this kind of Graeco-Romanised early European heavily Catholic stuff, or not, but there's no limit... well, this explains it all:

**Camarro Valkran** · 03-22-2014 11:40 AM

[OOC Note: Atheists are often the keenest students of religion. The development of religious belief in all its forms is a constant fascination to me, and something that in the case of Christianity I have studied in depth, even though I don't believe a word of it.]

As regards the relationship between secular and spiritual authority in Nave, the most pertinent point is surely that the rights enjoyed by the Church of Soldeus are those granted by the Crown. This implies that the status of the Church is essentially analogous to that of the Church of England, and essentially different to that of the Vatican that exists as a sovereign state in its own right.

The fact that the secular authorities do not routinely meddle in Church business is not relevant; the fact that they could do so is what demonstrates the nature of the relationship.

**Sir Levald Aurelius** · 03-22-2014 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Casilda Tametomo

Anyone who's read this far is encouraged at this point to spot the fanciful untrue detail embedded in the above.

I dont particularly recall any reference to nave being dead

**Camarro Valkran** · 03-22-2014 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Levald Aurelius

I dont particularly recall any reference to nave being dead

Nave was supposedly murdered by Umbra in jealous revenge for Her preferment of Soldeus. Other ancient sources tell the story differently but may be considered apocryphal.

**Varrick ChaosWielder** · 03-22-2014 05:44 PM

Interesting source of information Casilda. There will be a lot to think about here.

**Casilda Tametomo** · 03-22-2014 07:12 PM

The answer is in this spoiler:

Spoiler:

It was the Mexican Revolutionary general known in legend as Pancho Villa who rode a favourite horse named "Seven Seas" (Siete Laguas) or "Seven Leagues" (Siete Leguas).

After the battle at Ojinaga, Chihuahua
Typically, his story works like history works:
Born June 5, 1878, as José Doroteo Arango Arámbula

Called Doroteo as a child

In 1903, after killing an army officer (and stealing his horse), he no longer used Jose or Doroteo nor the first of his two surnames, Arango, but became known by the name Francisco ("Pancho", and don't ask me why that's the nickname for Francisco, or why the nickname for Jesus is often "Chuy".)

and the surname Villa after his paternal grandfather, Jesus Villa.

His friends supposedly called him La Cucaracha ("the cockroach").

Different sources give different names for his horse, and the fact that some of them were in heavily accented (Texas) English probably doesn't help.

He either had a child (that might not have been his) with one woman, or he had five women who claimed to be his wife, or he went through some form of (bigamous, therefore invalid in the eyes of the Church) marriage ceremony with 27 different women. Like Genghis Khan, he may very well be a direct male genetic ancestor of some small but easily found percentage of the men who now live in what used to be his 'territory'.

He may or may not have been the last to see Ambrose Bierce alive.

All of this, and he lived in age of photography and distance communication by wire.

I think I brought this up before, somehow, in the discussion of how writing lore-history for a game should work (as I perceived it to work in Shadowbane)-- the fact that it sounds more real and can be more fun if there is arguable difference in it without actual discontinuity, and the difference between those things.

**Zakiyya Ajam** · 03-23-2014 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Casilda Tametomo

Some background: Auros was around long before the Player-who-will-not-be-named-even-though-I-doubt-very-much-that-you-all-are-gonna-get-through-this-ordeal-in-character,

((Wait... is this forum supposed to be IC? In that case...))

*Zakiyya comes up to the fire, a leg of springbok held between her teeth watching the clergy as they speak of Soldeus. She falls down, landing on her rump, careful not to let the mug of mead spill*

'wut I miss?

*She spits out a bit of tendon into the warm fire close by and takes a swig of mead*

**Azidano Valkran** · 03-23-2014 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Casilda Tametomo

Some background: Auros was around long before the Player-who-will-not-be-named-even-though-I-doubt-very-much-that-you-all-are-gonna-get-through-this-ordeal-in-character

I believe "The Usurper" would suffice, it takes up less characters and is less of a health hazard! Although I'm not sure it applies to yourself as you regard him highly in your beliefs, Casilda.

For all those that are unaware, our respected guest Casilda follows a Sect called The Order of St. Lucian.

We in the Duchy of Wessex are part of the Order of St Jude.

Fundementally our beliefs are very similar:

- We both believe in Soldeus
- We both believe in Lucius (at least up until His Majesty the Duke's recent announcement of Lucius heresy)
- We both believe in the same Scripture (at least up until His Majesty the Duke's recent announcement of Lucius heresy)

But the key difference between the Sects comes down to something very simple:

- The head of the Order of St Jude is His Majesty the Duke.
- The head of the Order of St Lucian is Malachi "the Usurper", the former Bishop of Wessex who has now been excommunicated by the Eccumenical Council.

Right away you can see where the tension lies when the Duke makes a comment on Lucius being heresy, a single post of a few words that sparked off a tsunami of paranoia from the Order of St Lucian (or at the very least Casilda). In the worry that we would deliberately edit the Scripture of Soldeus to match His Majesty's comments, she sought to preserve the original texts, authored by the head of her Order, by transferring them from this forum to the MO forums.

This should show us that the Duke's words contain power, where a few words could spark threads and posts and post of hundreds of words.

All of this is absolutely fascinating. It is history. And this type of history provides depth, culture, and substance to our in-game religion, which is one of the reasons I fell in love with the Duchy of Wessex, and the Church of Soldeus.

**Sir Levald Aurelius** · 03-23-2014 04:48 AM

Ordo Lucius*

**Casilda Tametomo** · 03-23-2014 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Zakiyya Ajam

((Wait... is this forum supposed to be IC? In that case...))

*Zakiyya comes up to the fire, a leg of springbok held between her teeth watching the clergy as they speak of Soldeus. She falls down, landing on her rump, careful not to let the mug of mead spill*

'wut I miss?

*She spits out a bit of tendon into the warm fire close by and takes a swig of mead*

I don't suppose that it is, but it's hard to stay i-c for the discussion and also harsh to expect me to call Zac / Malachi "the Usurper" when I'm referring to him as a player, not his character. In fact, I'm not gonna do it that way OOC. Everyone else may suit themselves.

+several points for RPing and with style.

(I probably should point out, though, that wherever the churchmen are meeting, it's probably got either very cushy and proper furnishings or ascetically uncomfortable ones, so mind where you sprawl, my good woman.)

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